🏰 Today we begin a series on the formation of Ashkenaz, in the broad sense of northern Europe, covering the period from its beginnings, explored here, through the immediate post-Crusade period.
So when did they come to the Rhineland and from where besides Italy? Did they come as slaves after the second temple destruction to Rome? Did they come from other areas of the Roman Empire?
Great questions. So those two early, individual charters from the first half of the ninth century are some of the earliest indications of Jewish presence in Ashkenaz that we have. There was a migration in 917 that some count as the beginning of the Rhineland Valley communities. There were Jews living in Roman Gaul and Germania, though probably not continuously as in Spain. They seem to have been negatively impacted by the Christianization of the late Roman Empire and the Germanic invasions.
Dr. Ron Marvin -- this is a topic of perennial fascination for me. What do you recommend as further reading, besides the book by Kanarfogel? It seems that there is much more out there about the Halachic / liturgical aspects of early Ashkenaz than there is about origins, daily life, families, motivations for the move out of Italy, etc.
And on a related note, another area of interest for me is "European Judaism before the Talmud" -- i.e. what were the practices of the very early Jewish communities of Europe like, before the Talmud (or something like it) had reached them? (i.e., in the first 5-6 centuries CE) I know there are later stories from Kairouan about communities "correcting" their practice to match the Talmud, as it were, though it's not clear to me what the divergence was. Did communities have the Mishnah, or something like it? Did European Jews, such as those communities were "European", have practices that would later find their way into the Yerushalmi? Where can I learn more?!?!?
Your questions are better than the answers we currently have! There is no one book I can think of that addresses your first set of interests directly. If you read Hebrew, Avraham Grossman's חכמי אשכנז הראשונים does some of this work. On daily life, it's not an exact answer but see Elisheva Baumgarten's Mother and Children (https://amzn.to/42wRq0q). For the second set of questions, I think you'd be fascinated by Eldad ha-Dani if you're not familiar with his story (he claimed to have a separate mesora, particularly for schita) - see for example here: https://www.academia.edu/12588529/_All_Drink_from_the_Same_Fountain_The_Initial_Acceptance_Of_The_Halakhot_Of_Eldad_Ha_Dani_Into_The_Halakhic_Discourse
If you haven't read it yet, I think you would enjoy Talya Fishman's Becoming the People of the Talmud (be sure to read some of the controversy about it and form your own opinion).
Thank you for the suggestions. My Hebrew is halting and reading an academic text would probably be a painful experience but maybe I'll give it a go.
I read "Becoming the People of the Talmud" but wasn't aware that there is controversy. I'm not educated enough in the primary literature to be able to make a judgement in that area. I'll look at the reviews.
So when did they come to the Rhineland and from where besides Italy? Did they come as slaves after the second temple destruction to Rome? Did they come from other areas of the Roman Empire?
Great questions. So those two early, individual charters from the first half of the ninth century are some of the earliest indications of Jewish presence in Ashkenaz that we have. There was a migration in 917 that some count as the beginning of the Rhineland Valley communities. There were Jews living in Roman Gaul and Germania, though probably not continuously as in Spain. They seem to have been negatively impacted by the Christianization of the late Roman Empire and the Germanic invasions.
Dr. Ron Marvin -- this is a topic of perennial fascination for me. What do you recommend as further reading, besides the book by Kanarfogel? It seems that there is much more out there about the Halachic / liturgical aspects of early Ashkenaz than there is about origins, daily life, families, motivations for the move out of Italy, etc.
And on a related note, another area of interest for me is "European Judaism before the Talmud" -- i.e. what were the practices of the very early Jewish communities of Europe like, before the Talmud (or something like it) had reached them? (i.e., in the first 5-6 centuries CE) I know there are later stories from Kairouan about communities "correcting" their practice to match the Talmud, as it were, though it's not clear to me what the divergence was. Did communities have the Mishnah, or something like it? Did European Jews, such as those communities were "European", have practices that would later find their way into the Yerushalmi? Where can I learn more?!?!?
Your questions are better than the answers we currently have! There is no one book I can think of that addresses your first set of interests directly. If you read Hebrew, Avraham Grossman's חכמי אשכנז הראשונים does some of this work. On daily life, it's not an exact answer but see Elisheva Baumgarten's Mother and Children (https://amzn.to/42wRq0q). For the second set of questions, I think you'd be fascinated by Eldad ha-Dani if you're not familiar with his story (he claimed to have a separate mesora, particularly for schita) - see for example here: https://www.academia.edu/12588529/_All_Drink_from_the_Same_Fountain_The_Initial_Acceptance_Of_The_Halakhot_Of_Eldad_Ha_Dani_Into_The_Halakhic_Discourse
If you haven't read it yet, I think you would enjoy Talya Fishman's Becoming the People of the Talmud (be sure to read some of the controversy about it and form your own opinion).
Thank you for the suggestions. My Hebrew is halting and reading an academic text would probably be a painful experience but maybe I'll give it a go.
I read "Becoming the People of the Talmud" but wasn't aware that there is controversy. I'm not educated enough in the primary literature to be able to make a judgement in that area. I'll look at the reviews.